What constitutes a miracle?

Every time a creature is born. People that get better after having a terminal disease{for no real reason}. Our life and all the other life we see everyday. most of all Travh agreeing with Echo{that would be a true miracle} :D :D :D

I agree with your posts Mad Dog. The actual definition of a miracle is something that happens that cannot be explained, more or less.

Miracles happen every day to lots if not all people.

I look at what we call a miracle somewhat different than most.
When man accepts that he has no limits(except those he self-imposes) that which was once miracles becomes a natural occurance.
To me a miracle is each time a fellow human being becomes aware of his or her potential and starts down a path of exploration and wonderment.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell

To me a miracle is each time a fellow human being becomes aware of his or her potential and starts down a path of exploration and wonderment.

Ill agree with that.

Just got to listen to those Anthony Robbins Cds and im off

This is some real bullshit. Birth is cool as hell but it's strictly natural. Sea annenomies do it, too.

A miracle is some shit that is beyond explaination. Seas turing to blood, thousands of infants being killed at once, people coming back to life, shit like that.

Well none of those things have happened except for maybe the killing of a load of infants, and you could of course flatline be technically dead and come back from that.... but sea turning to blood?

id say miracles can even be healings.....like my brother who saw someone get cured of cancer overnight....talk about a miracle!

Care to Provide proof of that? Since obviouslly the ability to just cure cancer over night would be of some benefit to a few million+ people

Prayer.

Now you want proof of a miracle? You want the background?

You think there is any way to cure Cancer by itself without a devine intervention?

In general then it seems like most believe it to be a phenomena which occurs for which we have no given explanation or in which the probable outcome changes.

It seems like both believers and non-believers would use the term miracle, no problem.

jerejerebinks - What would you term "divine intervention"?

Lokideviluk - Have you never heard of spontaneous remission?

I think a miracle is what occurs outside of the normal physical process, and outside of the laws of nature.
A birth is wonderful and highlights the awesomeness of God, however I wouldn’t grant it true miracle status, but an immaculate conception is a miracle.
A broken leg healing over time is not a miracle, but a man who has permanently lost the use of his leg, suddenly gets up and walks, that’s a miracle.
I don't know, maybe I've overstepped the definition.

A lot of things that happen in unlikely situations can be called miracles. I embrace the existence of miracles. The thing that I don't do is to give credit to any certain religious deity for miracles.

Proof of things that one can call miracles abound. But it's a lot harder for anyone to proof, say, that Buddha is responsible for miracle A, Allah is responsible for miracle B, and the "Force" is responsible for C...etc.

Originally posted by ~Sal~


quote:
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Lokideviluk - Have you never heard of spontaneous remission?
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I didnt say that??

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
I didnt say that??

No you didn't, but his brother being cured over night would indicate spontaneous remission.

Everyone seems to be saying a miracle is an improbable, unexplained phenomena. Spontaneous remission is an improbable unexplained phenomena. Therefore by the definition here it would be a miracle wouldn't it?

Ugh ok, but for future can you just quote exactly what i say and not a similiar worded alternative.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
Ugh ok, but for future can you just quote exactly what i say and not a similiar worded alternative.

No I wasn't quoting you I was responding to your reply to another post...

You said: Care to Provide proof of that? Since obviouslly the ability to just cure cancer over night would be of some benefit to a few million+ people

So I asked you if you had never heard of spontaneous remission?

O fair enough, I think the fact that it had a little word above it saying 'Quote' and then my writing in bold just made me think it was a direct quote from something id said.

But to answer that question, no ive never heard of it. If something like Cancer just outright dissapering from someones body, someone being healed of a terrible skin condition or you know something totally non explainable happened in front of my eyes that would be enough to make me believe in God.

Still wouldnt worship him though, really dont see the point since id take no pleasure in following the commandments or avoiding Sin now, so cant imagine why id take pleasure in doing it in Heaven.

Be good to see a "miracle" happen though.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
O fair enough, I think the fact that it had a little word above it saying 'Quote' and then my writing in bold just made me think it was a direct quote from something id said.

But to answer that question, no ive never heard of it. If something like Cancer just outright dissapering from someones body, someone being healed of a terrible skin condition or you know something totally non explainable happened in front of my eyes that would be enough to make me believe in God.

Still wouldnt worship him though, really dont see the point since id take no pleasure in following the commandments or avoiding Sin now, so cant imagine why id take pleasure in doing it in Heaven.

Be good to see a "miracle" happen though.

Yeah sorry about the "quote" word I had meant to bold it and pushed the wrong button.

There have been many documented medical miracles where people have just spontaneously healed. Filled with cancer one day and the next....gone. Believers attribute it to faith and I guess non beleivers are just grateful for it's occurrence.

Even as a believer I have a problem with thinking that God specifically chose a person to be healed. Rather I look upon it as an energy occurrence. I believe that can happen due to prayer, or faith or other outside forces of which we are unaware.

I really do not think God directly intervenes with anything on earth. But there is definitely positive and negative energy. If we knew how to direct it successfully, we could do so much more.

Originally posted by ~Sal~

I really do not think God directly intervenes with anything on earth. But there is definitely positive and negative energy. If we knew how to direct it successfully, we could do so much more.

Now that is something i really would love to learn more about, and something i believe in.

It holds true to our science in that energy cant be created only transfered and so it stands to reason that if one can manipulate their own personal energy who knows what could happen.

I also believe postive thought is a divine healer and has immense power. Within ourselves, right now i feel that we have untapped power that if we could work out how to control would well... i dont know :)

I really do like that idea Sal :) and it sorta connects to my Gaia concept

Originally posted by ~Sal~
I really do not think God directly intervenes with anything on earth. But there is definitely positive and negative energy. If we knew how to direct it successfully, we could do so much more.

I agree with this they have done studys about how energy affects folks. Just think how much nicer it is to go sit with the sweet old lady down the street compared to going to see the town bully. If a group of mean looking bikers walked up to you you would more then likely to shut yourself in. If nicely dressed retires came up to you you might laugh inside thinking the home forgot to lock the doors :D. If a group of nice looking people walked towards you you'ld probably feel safe.

I think that God does most of His miracles by naturaly scientific means, although most of which are unknown to us at this time (and may be forever). That's just my opinion, though.
Now what is a miracle...? It's one of those "you know it when you see it" kind of thing. You know what I mean? You can't really define it, but you will know it when it comes.
Also just because a phenomena has no explanation, doesn't make it a miracle, and on the contrary, just because it does have an explanation, doesn't mean it's not a miracle.
Hmmm?.. Something to think about.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
I think that God does most of His miracles by naturaly scientific means, .

God that was just too painful for me to read this morning,

Why? It would make sense, right? Instead of breaking every scientific law when He does a miracle, He could simply create an underlying metaphysical layer of matter (if that makes any sense) that He can manipulate to affect physical matter. This allows for sceptics to always find another probable reason for a miracle.

Your basically saying "Well your theory of Gaia, or of anything else outside of God, is actually God just using something else"

Gaia ties in not completely, but close enough, with our laws and explains "miracles" pretty well without relying on some "unquestionable" God.

I cant imagine were going to see eye to eye on this :) I really passionatly disbelieve in God so nothing apart from him appearing out of thin air before me is going to make me believe in him/her/it etc.

Originally posted by Dio Seijuro
A lot of things that happen in unlikely situations can be called miracles. I embrace the existence of miracles. The thing that I don't do is to give credit to any certain religious deity for miracles.

Proof of things that one can call miracles abound. But it's a lot harder for anyone to proof, say, that Buddha is responsible for miracle A, Allah is responsible for miracle B, and the "Force" is responsible for C...etc.

Bhuddah was a guy. Analagous to Jesus or Mohamed.

God is God. "Allah" "Jehovah" "the Force" all mean the same thing. There aren't competing gods waging PR wars for followers. Each culture happens to use different words to describe the divine.

Miracles are necesarily unnatural.

Ed Blank:

The view that all major religions' highest being is the same god is a specific belief system itself. It is not a universal truth, and it is not necessarily acceptable by believers of any of the major religions.

I can not assume that when I make my point, since that's not mine or even many people's belief. :)

Also, just because Buddha was a guy does not mean that it is not possible that Buddha is credited for miracles. It is impossible to prove or disprove such things, that was my point.

I agree with Dio Sijuro. We can't prove that a certain god does this miracle or a dead (or may be not) man does that miracle. It's a matter of choice, but, of course, there is only one right choice.
What I said, Lokideviluk, was just my opinion. It's not a Christian opinion nor an opinion I can back up. So I guess I am not really saying anything....just forget it.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
I agree with Dio Sijuro. We can't prove that a certain god does this miracle or a dead (or may be not) man does that miracle. It's a matter of choice, but, of course, there is only one right choice.
What I said, Lokideviluk, was just my opinion. It's not a Christian opinion nor an opinion I can back up. So I guess I am not really saying anything....just forget it.

You can back it up with your faith, but since you dont know that, i think its time to question how strong that faith really is.

Originally posted by Dio Seijuro
Ed Blank:

The view that all major religions' highest being is the same god is a specific belief system itself. It is not a universal truth, and it is not necessarily acceptable by believers of any of the major religions.

I can not assume that when I make my point, since that's not mine or even many people's belief. :)

Also, just because Buddha was a guy does not mean that it is not possible that Buddha is credited for miracles. It is impossible to prove or disprove such things, that was my point.

Bhuddists don't rely on Bhuddah for miracles, they credit him with bringing the truth (Bhuddah simply means "enlightened one"). Any Muslim will tell you that Allah and Jehovah and Yaweh are words for the same thing: God.

Although people might believe different things, there is objective reality. My statements are statements of fact. "There is a God" "There is no God" are statements of fact (one is obviously false).

Your treatment of the word "belief" seems to equate a "belief" with an "opinion". Opinions include "Orange is the best color" "Heavy Metal music sound really good" and "skittles are yummy". One person can think that beets suck and another can like them and they are both right.

When I say stuff like "there is one God", I am making a statement of fact (which may or may not be true). You can rebut my statement all you like but you cannot diffuse it by telling me that that's my opinion and you have yours. Either ther is no God, One God, or multitudes of gods. No gray area in which we can all believe what we want and all be right.

Originally posted by Ed Blank
When I say stuff like "there is one God", I am making a statement of fact (which may or may not be true).

If it may or may not be true, its not a fact is it.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
If it may or may not be true, its not a fact is it.

I am making a distiction between a "statement of fact" and an "opinion".

(Statement of fact)
I am merely saying that "God exists" or "God does not exist", it's one or the other.

(Opinion)
Fluffernutters are the bestist sandwiches ever!
To which you could say "Applebutter sandwiches are better than fluffernutters!" and we would both be right.

I think Ed Blank is right. We can't all be right, there is only one truth.
Also, Lokideviluk, you can go ahead and test the strength of my faith. I wanna see how you are going to do that.

No he isnt right, But ive already detailed why and if he wants to blindly ignore that thats his poor education.

Ok then tonight, pray to God and ask him to spare your life and let you survive unharmed when.... you stab yourself in the chest with a knife.

Lets see if God hears your voice, or like the billions of people he has chose to ignore he ignores you as well.

It's a sad thing. I hope you will realize it when you read Matthew 4:1-11. In case you are too lazy, here is a quick summary:
Devil carries Jesus onto a temple, sets Him up high and asks Him to jump down, so the angels will save Him and He will be proven the Son of God. What does Jesus say? He answers:
"It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the Lord your God.'"
As simple as that. Even Christ says that, so what makes little people like us think that we can stub ourselves and God will save us? Why should God save us from our own foolishness?